Items Lost on Death - Instances

[Goddess 130]

Hi,

We have instances here on Ely, and aside from Vorkath/Zulrah any deaths within them are not safe. This means that all items bar 3 or 4 that the player has protected on death are lost. I've seen players quit because of this very reason. Quite naturally those who do not quit become quite upset and frustrated.

This is a suggestion that will need a considerable amount of feedback and fine tuning to get it right, should it be accepted and introduced in-game.

OSRS has Death's Office & Death's Coffer
RS3 has Death's Office which also plays host to a reclaim chest.

All of the above systems require money and/or items to be taken from the player in order to retrieve items for a price.

On Ely, we do have Diango - however this is for untradeables only. This suggestion could change the way this works if what I propose is positively supported. I think it's important we keep the gravestone system for all deaths that are not in an instance and this suggestion only directly impacts instance deaths.

Enough rambling, here is the suggestion below.

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When dying in an instance, there should be a system in place for the player to retrieve lost items at a PRICE. This creates a money sink while also introducing a risk factor as more high-value items will require a higher price in order to retrieve. 

The price to retrieve the lost items should NOT be the examine value but rather a completely separate value only related to death reclaim.

FOR EXAMPLE:

• Zenyte Jewelry - potentially cost 20M GP to retrieve.
• Nex Sets - potentially cost 30M GP to retrieve (10M per piece)
• God Wars items - potentially cost 5M GP to retrieve. (Per piece or the whole set?)
• Ruins / Grae items - potentially cost 30M GP to retrieve, the same as nex sets. (10M per piece)
• Cerb Boots - potentially costing 15M to retrieve.
• Primal Weapons - potentially costing 10-20M To retrieve.
• Untradeables (Comp, Slayer Helm, Dom tower gloves) - potentially cost 100k - 2M GP to retrieve?

Again to reiterate the whole idea of this only applies to INSTANCE deaths and the risk factor involved is the player deciding if they risk max tier gear with the penalty of death meaning they could have to pay up to 85M GP in order to not lose their items. (85M is based on the above examples of max tier gear). This opens up the ability to not worry about going into an instance with any gear you choose, so long as you accept that if you die it will cost a retrieval fee for items.

Other points which are notable to mention:

• If the player does not have enough funds to be able to retrieve the lost items, they would be lost as normal. (Again, keeping a money/item sink in place)
• The player could also have the option to pick and choose which items to retrieve, and the others either get removed from the game altogether OR utilise a similar system to the OSRS coffer and be used to discount any future retrieval prices on the next death.
• The player would still keep their 3 or 4 protected items with no penalty.
   

Gravestone death would be completely free and unaffected by this proposed suggestion. Diango could stay in place for untradeables, that one would need feedback from the playerbase. 

Please let me know your constructive thoughts on this suggestion, this requires real feedback and not just "No support" or "Support".

[Longshot 9]

I support the basis of your idea, which in my interpretation is that instanced deaths should not be a 'lose all your items' situation.

Perhaps instead of reworking the entire system, a small workaround could be achieved? Maybe if you choose to pay for an instance, you also have the option to purchase "insurance" for a set amount of money PER INSTANCE (e.g. You pay the instance fee of 5M at Cerberus and you elect to also purchase the optional insurance for, say, 25M. This totals a 30M instance fee). When insurance is purchased, a gravestone (mirroring the death mechanics of other places around the game) is placed outside of the instance area upon death, allowing the user to claim all their items from the gravestone as normal.

Again, I think the scenario you laid out is viable and I 100% support that as well. My alternative suggestion seems less code-intensive, thus could be implemented more quickly. Feel free to poke holes or debate.

[Duke 6]

I absolutely support this. I'm constantly avoiding instances because I don't want to loose what I have and would rather go and do a different boss than start an instance. There needs to be something like this implemented, something that is still a money sink but yet something that doesn't make players loose all of their items.

 

[Goddess 130]

2 hours ago, Longshot said:

Perhaps instead of reworking the entire system, a small workaround could be achieved? Maybe if you choose to pay for an instance, you also have the option to purchase "insurance" for a set amount of money PER INSTANCE (e.g. You pay the instance fee of 5M at Cerberus and you elect to also purchase the optional insurance for, say, 25M. This totals a 30M instance fee). When insurance is purchased, a gravestone (mirroring the death mechanics of other places around the game) is placed outside of the instance area upon death, allowing the user to claim all their items from the gravestone as normal.

This could also be a viable option, however I feel the price paid should be relevant to the items the player is wearing. 

A player wearing Bandos for example, shouldn't have to pay as much as a player wearing a Nex set. So as long as the insurance method would account for that, it would be fine. 

That being said, I think my original suggestion would be easier as you can have the items sitting in something similar to the Coffer from OSRS and have each item individually priced.

[Delete 18]

SUPPORT instances being safe deaths.
a way i found that worked (on a previous server) when you pay for an instance, it was a bit of a hgher price but you and anyone in the clan chat of the payee has authority to enter the instance, if you died, you could go back to where ever you were bossing and enter the :SAME: instance room and collect from your grave marker (as long as your are still in the clan chat).

No more losing a grae kill because you have to tele out when they are just about dead.

[Goddess 130]

12 minutes ago, Delete said:

SUPPORT instances being safe deaths.

I think it's important to clarify that the death is still a risk, as if the player does not have the funds to retrieve the items, they'll be lost as normal.

[Kemi 47]

Support
Could be cool if the amount to pay was based on the items' value, let's say 5-10% of the examine value, capped at like 50m per item + a cap for the total value, kinda like OSRS, so that it's still punishing to die in an instance. Though this could require items' examine values to be altered a fair bit I guess.

[Delete 18]

9 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I think it's important to clarify that the death is still a risk, as if the player does not have the funds to retrieve the items, they'll be lost as normal.

this is why i added my idea

[Goddess 130]

8 minutes ago, Kemi said:

Could be cool if the amount to pay was based on the items' value, let's say 5-10% of the examine value, capped at like 50m per item + a cap for the total value, kinda like OSRS, so that it's still punishing to die in an instance. Though this could require items' examine values to be altered a fair bit I guess.

I think this is why I added the below sentence.

6 hours ago, Goddess said:

The price to retrieve the lost items should NOT be the examine value but rather a completely separate value only related to death reclaim..

I feel rather than changing examine values, it might be better to give them a death reclaim value which would be visible in the retrieval interface.
There could be some difficulty altering the examine price for higher tier items, which could affect the way the normal items kept on death works. 

[nelly 159]

this got a lot of attention, havent read it but i already know this suggestion bangs...its coming from goddess! SUPPORT

[Kari 308]

Support, great suggestion

[twitch 5]

It is a good idea but most people have a lot of cash on private servers and it's easy to get back so people are just going to buy items back and nothing will really get lost, I think more should be charged perhaps go with  5-10% of the total worth of items? Otherwise you're spending 10m for a item worth a lot more and most people with these items have a lot more money spare making it just pennies compared to the loss of the items 

[Goddess 130]

52 minutes ago, twitch said:

It is a good idea but most people have a lot of cash on private servers and it's easy to get back so people are just going to buy items back and nothing will really get lost, I think more should be charged perhaps go with  5-10% of the total worth of items? Otherwise you're spending 10m for a item worth a lot more and most people with these items have a lot more money spare making it just pennies compared to the loss of the items 

Most items have community made prices which do not match or even come close to their examine values - so the problem with 5-10% total worth of the items is; How do we calculate that? 

Do we base it off examine values? 
Do we create entirely new values which will only be relevant to the reclaim interface?
Do we update it regularly based on community prices?

You have a very valid point and this is exactly the kind of discussion we need to be having. 

[twitch 5]

12 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Most items have community made prices which do not match or even come close to their examine values - so the problem with 5-10% total worth of the items is; How do we calculate that? 

Do we base it off examine values? 
Do we create entirely new values which will only be relevant to the reclaim interface?
Do we update it regularly based on community prices?

You have a very valid point and this is exactly the kind of discussion we need to be having. 

I would do it based on the examine prices of items to remove any debate on how much people think they should/shouldn't pay for a item, though some items if degraded/broke from death the price in examine dramatically drops so it should be the %of the item if it was fixed and maybe even if you did recover this way the item is also in a broken state? since this would remove a lot of item loss there needs to be some kind of penalty for using recovery

[Clar 34]

Quote

We have instances here on Ely, and aside from Vorkath/Zulrah any deaths within them are not safe. This means that all items bar 3 or 4 that the player has protected on death are lost. I've seen players quit because of this very reason. Quite naturally those who do not quit become quite upset and frustrated.

Being a victim of this I fully support this. 

[Matt 90]

Was resolved. Items fall at the entrance to the instance you are in when you die.