Suggestion for Iron Accounts.

[Dami Redux1 1]

I'd like to put forward a problem that main accounts are able to just walk into a boss room and knock an iron account off the boss and rendering them unable to attack said boss. This leads to the problem of people waiting for the boss to get to say 55% of hp, walking in and just doing the remaining 55% for the loot and the iron can't even keep attacking for the remaining 6% damage needed for the loot. So I have some suggestions to fix this:

1) Make irons have free instances (Or the required amount of coins to skip getting kill count.) instead of reduced, this still leaves the risk of losing items because it's an instance but also avoids the problem all together.

2) Another option would be to remove the restricted attack all together meaning they can either get crashed or crash like a normal account but this too has its drawbacks in that irons can be leeched kills.

3) Make it so mains cannot attack something an iron account is already attacking.

 

-Thanks.

[Goddess 130]

9 minutes ago, Dami Redux1 said:

I'd like to put forward a problem that main accounts are able to just walk into a boss room and knock an iron account off the boss and rendering them unable to attack said boss. This leads to the problem of people waiting for the boss to get to say 55% of hp, walking in and just doing the remaining 55% for the loot and the iron can't even keep attacking for the remaining 6% damage needed for the loot. 

3) Make it so mains cannot attack something an iron account is already attacking.

 

Personally I think number 3 is the only viable option to this that still allows us to boss the same as everyone else without using an instance. (Why should we be forced to risk losing everything on death for every boss?)

It's a very fair thing to ask for, we're already attacking the NPC so it's not like it's going to hurt the game or ruin any integrity of the game mode by stopping other players attacking and taking the kill.

Much the same way that we can't attack something that a regular player is attacking (which is absolutely correct, don't get me wrong). It only seems fair that they can't attack what we're attacking either.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Goddess

[Blah quited 10]

defenitely support. i would go for option 2 (being at a boss with 2 accs is bannable so no issues). 

[Kari 307]

Support on option 3

Option 2, while having two accounts at the same boss is against the rules it would still devalue iron man accounts if you could just leech of other players.

[Boats 254]

No support. In my opinion game changes shouldn't be made around ironmen. They have the option to get instances already. Should have to spend to get free kills.

 

Also the problem with #3 is that ironmen wouldnt be able to do season bosses or dung with others if that was implemented.

[Goddess 130]

56 minutes ago, Boats said:

No support. In my opinion game changes shouldn't be made around ironmen. They have the option to get instances already. Should have to spend to get free kills.

Also the problem with #3 is that ironmen wouldnt be able to do season bosses or dung with others if that was implemented.

 

I respect your opinion and input into this discussion and understand where you are coming from.

But what's your stance on regular players crashing ironman accounts? Would it just be for the irons to go into instance? Does that seem fair if they're already mid-kill?

Edited May 28, 2020 by Goddess

[Boats 254]

23 minutes ago, Goddess said:

 

I respect your opinion and input into this discussion and understand where you are coming from.

But what's your stance on regular players crashing ironman accounts? Would it just be for the irons to go into instance? Does that seem fair if they're already mid-kill?

Yes, I do think that is how it should be. You choose to limit yourself and you choose to be on a ironman account. What happens if an iron gets into the boss room and has better ping and can get the first click on the boss? Then the regular account (or group of regular accounts) can't boss. Is it fair to make them have to use an instance?. In my opinion, since there is only one world- if a regular players wants to kill a boss, I don't think that is crashing.

[Blah quited 10]

7 hours ago, Boats said:

Yes, I do think that is how it should be. You choose to limit yourself and you choose to be on a ironman account. What happens if an iron gets into the boss room and has better ping and can get the first click on the boss? Then the regular account (or group of regular accounts) can't boss. Is it fair to make them have to use an instance?. In my opinion, since there is only one world- if a regular players wants to kill a boss, I don't think that is crashing.

the limitation of being a ironman is that you need to gather everything yourself and not getting crashed at every boss. a reg player shouldnt be placed above a iron and the otherway around. on my main i always use instances just to prevent people from crashing (its annoying af). lets take grae for a example: it takes +/- 10 minutes to kill towards 20 if you have bad gear. you are telling us its fair that when a iron kills it for close to halfway a reg comes and can just crash it and take the kill?. i dont think thats how its suppose to work.

[Vegemite 14]

Holy crap I can't believe I'm in agreement with Boats. It's a part of the gamemode, and I'd be happy to crash any regular account just the same. Pay for the instance if you want it. Simple.

[Goddess 130]

1 hour ago, Vegemite said:

Holy crap I can't believe I'm in agreement with Boats. It's a part of the gamemode, and I'd be happy to crash any regular account just the same. Pay for the instance if you want it. Simple.

 

The difference being that when you crash that regular account, they can CONTINUE killing the NPC. It's fair game as both players can still engage in combat.

It's got nothing to do with being part of the "gamemode", we accept that we can't kill bosses with other people. We accept that if an Ironman is stood with a regular player at a boss then they can compete to click it first, that's fair game. 

BUT when the ironman is already in the MIDDLE of a kill a regular player can just come attack it and the ironman suddenly STOPS engaging in combat and it's stolen away from them.

Quote

Yes, I do think that is how it should be. You choose to limit yourself and you choose to be on a ironman account. What happens if an iron gets into the boss room and has better ping and can get the first click on the boss? Then the regular account (or group of regular accounts) can't boss. Is it fair to make them have to use an instance?. In my opinion, since there is only one world- if a regular players wants to kill a boss, I don't think that is crashing.

To quote Boats from the post before:

As of right now this has nothing to do with ping at all. An ironman can have better ping and click attack first but that doesn't STOP a regular player from engaging in combat. The difference being if the ironman account has better ping and attacks first, the regular player can STILL attack the NPC and steal the kill off us anyway. But the other way around, we can't engage in the combat (fair enough, they attacked it first).

The change we're asking for is that if we're already attacking something, that we're able to kill it without a regular player clicking it once and taking it off us completely. If this change is made, both game modes have a FAIR chance of clicking attack on the boss first.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Goddess

[Barbell 6]

No support .

 

Be a man and accept the fact you’ll get crashed if you’re a cheap ass and don’t use an instance, it’s not like it’s difficult to make cash, even on an Ironman account. 
 

I do believe there’s a few bosses without an instance though, that should be fixed and everyone is happy.

[Goddess 130]

6 minutes ago, Barbell said:

No support .

Be a man and accept the fact you’ll get crashed if you’re a cheap ass and don’t use an instance, it’s not like it’s difficult to make cash, even on an Ironman account. 

I do believe there’s a few bosses without an instance though, that should be fixed and everyone is happy.

 

It's not about us buying an instance or being a "cheap ass".

Using Grae as an example due to his high HP and length of time it takes to kill:

Ironman account is 4 minutes into a Grae kill, they've taken 20k HP off him. Regular player teleports in, attacks Grae. Ironman account STOPS engaging in combat and they can't attack any more. Regular player is able to finish the kill. 

OTHER WAY AROUND:

Regular player is attacking Grae 4 minutes in taken 20k HP. Ironman account teleports in, we can't engage in combat. We can't take that kill off him. Fair enough, we use instance. We're not saying we wouldn't use them.

---------------------------

Do you see the difference here? The kill can be completely STOLEN off the ironman. It's about making it fair for everyone. Regular players can still multi attack the boss to their hearts content. We're asking that if an Ironman is already engaged in that combat, why should it be taken off us?

The same thing can be applied to every boss essentially, grae is just a good example to use due to high health and length of time it takes to kill.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Goddess

[Barbell 6]

23 minutes ago, Goddess said:

 

It's not about us buying an instance or being a "cheap ass".

Using Grae as an example due to his high HP and length of time it takes to kill:

Ironman account is 4 minutes into a Grae kill, they've taken 20k HP off him. Regular player teleports in, attacks Grae. Ironman account STOPS engaging in combat and they can't attack any more. Regular player is able to finish the kill. 

OTHER WAY AROUND:

Regular player is attacking Grae 4 minutes in taken 20k HP. Ironman account teleports in, we can't engage in combat. We can't take that kill off him. Fair enough, we use instance. We're not saying we wouldn't use them.

---------------------------

Do you see the difference here? The kill can be completely STOLEN off the ironman. It's about making it fair for everyone. Regular players can still multi attack the boss to their hearts content. We're asking that if an Ironman is already engaged in that combat, why should it be taken off us?

The same thing can be applied to every boss essentially, grae is just a good example to use due to high health and length of time it takes to kill.

Why should regular accounts be forced into an instance if an Ironman decides they want to camp at a boss all day? If they get the first hit, we won’t be able to attack. 

[Goddess 130]

1 hour ago, Barbell said:

Why should regular accounts be forced into an instance if an Ironman decides they want to camp at a boss all day? If they get the first hit, we won’t be able to attack. 

 

And that same argument can be applied to a regular account camping the boss all day? If they get first hit, we won't be able to attack.

That makes that argument null and void because it can be used both ways.

We use instances, we're not against them. But when we've made progress on a kill and we're actively engaged in it, why should it be taken away from us the same way thanos clicks his finger in infinity war.

 

Just going to leave this here again:

The difference being that when you crash that regular account, they can CONTINUE killing the NPC. It's fair game as both players can still engage in combat.

It's got nothing to do with being part of the "gamemode", we accept that we can't kill bosses with other people. We accept that if an Ironman is stood with a regular player at a boss then they can compete to click it first, that's fair game. 

BUT when the ironman is already in the MIDDLE of a kill a regular player can just come attack it and the ironman suddenly STOPS engaging in combat and it's stolen away from them.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Goddess

[Boats 254]

In my opinion, it is not stolen. That Ironman has no right to the boss. In my opinion (and I honestly don’t think it can be swayed) if a regular account wants to kill the boss, they should be able to. Whether or not an Ironman is on it makes no difference to me. If an Ironman doesn’t want to get their kill taken, they should use an instance. I appreciate all the effort you took typing up the response, but it didn’t change my view at all. 

[Boats 254]

9 hours ago, Blah quited said:

the limitation of being a ironman is that you need to gather everything yourself and not getting crashed at every boss. a reg player shouldnt be placed above a iron and the otherway around. on my main i always use instances just to prevent people from crashing (its annoying af). lets take grae for a example: it takes +/- 10 minutes to kill towards 20 if you have bad gear. you are telling us its fair that when a iron kills it for close to halfway a reg comes and can just crash it and take the kill?. i dont think thats how its suppose to work.

In my opinion, a regular player should be placed above an ironman. Regular player shouldn’t be negatively affected because you decided to have limitations. I don’t understand how we have instances on the server yet this is still such a problem. In my opinion (again and again and again) if you don’t want to risk losing “your” kill, use an instance

[Goddess 130]

11 minutes ago, Boats said:

In my opinion, it is not stolen. That Ironman has no right to the boss. In my opinion (and I honestly don’t think it can be swayed) if a regular account wants to kill the boss, they should be able to. Whether or not an Ironman is on it makes no difference to me. If an Ironman doesn’t want to get their kill taken, they should use an instance. I appreciate all the effort you took typing up the response, but it didn’t change my view at all. 

 

Okay, so then let's talk about instances instead. Currently most of them are not safe deaths (exception being Zulrah) and everything is lost on death.

Would you be supportive of changes being made to how instances work? E.g. Gravestone implementations, Removing the price completely, allowing some form of safety net for dying.

This will give everyone the incentive to use instances, regular and ironman players alike. Thus, removing the need for this thread in the first place.

[Boats 254]

39 minutes ago, Goddess said:

 

Okay, so then let's talk about instances instead. Currently most of them are not safe deaths (exception being Zulrah) and everything is lost on death.

Would you be supportive of changes being made to how instances work? E.g. Gravestone implementations, Removing the price completely, allowing some form of safety net for dying.

This will give everyone the incentive to use instances, regular and ironman players alike. Thus, removing the need for this thread in the first place.

Yes. I could agree to instances changes. Would probably need another thread to delve into. Would probably have to be only specific bosses to still keep some risk involved. 

[Chimpamzee 86]

fully support this thread just becaus there are even some asses dedicated to troll ironmens in bosses. imagine spending 10 minutes at grae and then someon walks in a swoops your kill. not once not twice but 7 times. its frustrating. yes there is instances and shit but i dont really wanna risk my UIM in an instance just so my client can freeze and loose all the progress in seconds.

[DevilSkag 75]

On 5/29/2020 at 11:25 AM, Boats said:

In my opinion, a regular player should be placed above an ironman. Regular player shouldn’t be negatively affected because you decided to have limitations. I don’t understand how we have instances on the server yet this is still such a problem. In my opinion (again and again and again) if you don’t want to risk losing “your” kill, use an instance

bruh, you chose to play a regular acc, the same way an iron chooses to play ironman. i don't remember "totally getting fucked out of your kill at the leisure of the regular players" being in the ironman description. and yes, we have instances but don't have instances for every boss but that still doesn't change the fact an instance is infinitely more dangerous than a non-instance. The idea is to do everything yourself, not get bullied by some opportunists. The game shouldn't cater to any specific gamemode, it should be fair to whatever play style you choose.

[Kemi 47]

15 minutes ago, DevilSkag said:

bruh, you chose to play a regular acc, the same way an iron chooses to play ironman. i don't remember "totally getting fucked out of your kill at the leisure of the regular players" being in the ironman description. and yes, we have instances but don't have instances for every boss but that still doesn't change the fact an instance is infinitely more dangerous than a non-instance. The idea is to do everything yourself, not get bullied by some opportunists. The game shouldn't cater to any specific gamemode, it should be fair to whatever play style you choose.

It absolutely is fair that an iron can be "totally getting fucked", if there's no instance? Too bad, wait till noone else wants to kill it.
There is an instance? Use it. Your mindset here is absolutely catering to ironmen.
As for the risk of instances? It's the cost of convenience, deal with it.

[DevilSkag 75]

No, kemi, you're catering to regular players. The point is that an Ironman was there first, gets crashed, and can do absolutely nothing about it which is incredibly biased to toward opportunist players. My mindset is fairness to all players however they choose to play the game. If they get crashed because they're too slow to get the kill, so be it. We aren't complaining about that though are we.

[Kemi 47]

Just now, DevilSkag said:

No, kemi, you're catering to regular players. The point is that an Ironman was there first, gets crashed, and can do absolutely nothing about it which is incredibly biased to toward opportunist players. My mindset is fairness to all players however they choose to play the game. If they get crashed because they're too slow to get the kill, so be it. We aren't complaining about that though are we.

I most definitely am not. If you crash an iron? You're a dick, but you're well within your rights to crash someone, no matter their gamemode.
I'm not gonna speak for affirmative action for irons because else they'd be at a disadvantage, that's the mentality of a lil bitch tbh.

[DevilSkag 75]

Just now, Kemi said:

you're well within your rights to crash someone, no matter their gamemode.

then please inform me how an ironman can crash a regular player. Or prevent a player from taking their kill from them (majority damage done and would otherwise have obviously received the drop) after having worked much of the way through it.

[Kemi 47]

3 minutes ago, DevilSkag said:

then please inform me how an ironman can crash a regular player. Or prevent a player from taking their kill from them (majority damage done and would otherwise have obviously received the drop) after having worked much of the way through it.

Preventing a player from taking the kill? Easy, don't eat for half an hour, kills are usually protected since a regular player can't attack something that an iron is in combat with, take dungeoneering as an innocent example. 
Crash a regular player? Kinda hard for the above mentioned reason, as it also acts in the opposite direction.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Kemi